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Wireless Routers



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#1 TiM

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 12:54 AM

Blargh, so I wasn't on much at all last weekend because I accidentally killed my house's wireless router; one Apple Airport Extreme.
I did this by upgrading the firmware... which it apparently didn't like. :rolleyes:

So... now I've ordered a Linksys WRT54GL router, which should be here this week, and (mainly to appease the Apple fanpeople in my house) see if I can get it to broadcast alongside the Airport (provided I can fix it. XD)

I'm hoping this will also make Xbox LIVE more stable as well (The Xbox appears to hate Apple technology. XD )

Does anyone else here use wireless technology in their houses...?

#2 sharpkiller

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 12:56 AM

Yep, I use wireless for my two gaming consoles, and my awfully slow laptop. Xbox LIVE works fine. :)

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#3 Apprentice

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:06 AM

Does anyone else here use wireless technology in their houses...?

Nope, don't need to and it's waiting to be 'haxored, which is only a matter of time since my neighbours all use the same type of wireless routers . . .

#4 TiM

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:19 AM

Yep, I use wireless for my two gaming consoles, and my awfully slow laptop. Xbox LIVE works fine. :)

Oh cool. Hmm, did you also have to buy the ridiculously expensive wireless adaptor for the Xbox as well then...?

Nope, don't need to and it's waiting to be 'haxored, which is only a matter of time since my neighbours all use the same type of wireless routers . . .


Yeah..... as much as wired would be nice, it's definitely not an option here. :(

I'm thinking about maybe discouraging people from trying to join mine by given it an obscenely foul network name. XD
As well as making sure the security protocols are totally in place too. XD

#5 Apprentice

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:24 AM

Yeah..... as much as wired would be nice, it's definitely not an option here. :(

Why not ??

I'm thinking about maybe discouraging people from trying to join mine by given it an obscenely foul network name. XD
As well as making sure the security protocols are totally in place too. XD

And then being sued for having such a name, no thank you.

Anyway, the German laws regarding wifi routers and such should've been adopted by other nations, yet to this date that has not yet come to pass . . .

#6 khamseen

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:31 AM

I use a mixture of wired and wireless. I have at least two network sockets in each room so I can always plug things in. Also got a total of three wireless routers in the house, one of which is the modem plus two additional ones as access points.

Use the wireless for the Wii and a couple of laptops without probs but I don't use wireless for the XBox as I couldn't be bothered paying to get their wireless adaptor when I could just run a cable round to it lol.

#7 RedTechie

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:35 AM

So... now I've ordered a Linksys WRT54GL router, which should be here this week


Your going to love it TiM trust me! :) I have a WRT54G, WRT54GS, and a WRT54GL all currently in production at home running custom DD-WRT firmware (http://www.dd-wrt.com). They will fill any enthusiasts heart up with configuration options and abilities galore that you have yet to comprehend from a small little blue and black box of un-known love thats waiting to embrace anyone! XD (Did I just say that out loud.... O_O)

Although I am currently using an Astaro Security Gateway Appliance (http://www.astaro.com) as my Internet router. The WRT's are primarily used for serving up the wireless and various other little things here and there.

Nope, don't need to and it's waiting to be 'haxored, which is only a matter of time since my neighbours all use the same type of wireless routers . . .


With the proper security measures you can make a wireless network just as secure as a wired network. (Sure there is nothing in the world of computers that is "Un-Hackable").

With WPA2 (and a VERY secure pass key) or even for that matter RADIUS (Which is UBER secure) and and healthy combination of not displaying your wireless broadcast SSID and MAC filtering it would be as if you network didn't even exist. If they do find it.... good luck to the poor soul that will try to hack it.

I've hacked wireless networks before...... Its easy because people are stupid. If it is setup properly you can make it a very unattractive target ESPECIALLY if you have a lot of neighbors that have un-secure networks.

Originally Posted by TiM View Post
Yeah..... as much as wired would be nice, it's definitely not an option here.

Why not ??


I completely agree with this statement and I have pestered TiM about it before B) But with that said....

The fact of the matter is some people can't run wires through their house for various reasons and I understand their reasons.

I personally view wireless networks as an added convince not a requirement. If there is no reason of not using wired its stupid to use wireless. But some people have reasons.


As a side note I really should post some pic's of my home network some time maybe there are some network geeks on this board that would get a kick out of it... hehehe :$
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#8 Apprentice

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:57 AM

With the proper security measures you can make a wireless network just as secure as a wired network. (Sure there is nothing in the world of computers that is "Un-Hackable").

With WPA2 (and a VERY secure pass key) or even for that matter RADIUS (Which is UBER secure) and and healthy combination of not displaying your wireless broadcast SSID and MAC filtering it would be as if you network didn't even exist. If they do find it.... good luck to the poor soul that will try to hack it.

Fact remains, it's still hackable and once it has been hacked, your efforts will go to waste since the router will turn back to it's default settings (except when you live in Germany) and your network will open and vulnerable again . . .

#9 sharpkiller

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 12:32 PM

Oh cool. Hmm, did you also have to buy the ridiculously expensive wireless adaptor for the Xbox as well then...?



Yeah..... as much as wired would be nice, it's definitely not an option here. :(

I'm thinking about maybe discouraging people from trying to join mine by given it an obscenely foul network name. XD
As well as making sure the security protocols are totally in place too. XD


Unfortunately, yes. :( It was either pay out the money, or have a Ethernet cable running down to the other side of the house.

I use wired for my two desktop PCs.

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#10 RedTechie

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:22 PM

Fact remains, it's still hackable and once it has been hacked, your efforts will go to waste since the router will turn back to it's default settings (except when you live in Germany) and your network will open and vulnerable again . . .


Well ok if you want to look at it that way... A wired connection isn't un-hackable either... Actually getting access to a wired connection is even easier then a well secured wireless one. All it takes is a unlocked door or opened window and they are in. :P.

As far as reseting the router...that is not possible if the router password is different then the wireless access key...which it should be never set your router password to the same as a wireless key thats a bad security practice.

For matter of demonstration lets say if they did get access to your wireless connection. They then would have to go about hacking the router's password. And the process of hacking a routers password is a completely different and much harder to go about doing. Hell if they got access to a wired connection inside your house they could easily reset your router with out any hacking of passwords. :P

But what kind of good hacker would want to reset someone's router :skeptical: Lets say if I wanted to gain access to a network without the owner knowing....that would be the last thing I would want to do. Because it will possibly kick all the other computers off the wireless network cause the router was reset to default settings (SSID, and security settings would not match on the other machines). The owners would then know something was up and possibly change their passwords and wireless keys effectively locking me out again unless I was able to hack their new passwords.
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#11 TiM

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:49 PM

Yeah, Red hit it right on.

Basically the location of the modem versus the location of my PC, versus the composition of the materials between the two would make it ridiculously hard (as well as risky, and downright annoying) to run a cable through here.

Either way... I performed a factory reset on the Airport and it looks like everything's working again now... :$

My WRT54GL will be arriving in the mail this Thursday-ish as well hehe. I wonder if I should make the two duke it out or let them work side by side. Either way QoS sounds like it's a godesend for gaming hehe.

Is there anything the Airport Extreme can do a WRT54GL can't...? I dunno... 802.11n standard may be an issue...

#12 Leila1

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:59 PM

Ahh, wireless... i use that too, for simple reasons that my house was built quite poorly. It only contains sockets downstairs, and actually running a cable upstairs to the other room would be asking for trouble, especially cause of the pets (And how to set up such a huge cable anyway). I've never actually had issues with the thing, but i am quite careful about it, got some nasty neighbors.
Though it is pretty good Tim, it's one less nasty wire :P

#13 RedTechie

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 04:21 PM

Is there anything the Airport Extreme can do a WRT54GL can't...? I dunno... 802.11n standard may be an issue...


The WRT54GL can do everything and more then a Airport.... But like you said the only thing the airport can do that the WRT54GL can't is 802.11 Draft N.

Maybe sometime this week I will forward some ports for you TiM so you can have a look around the features of DD-WRT on one of my WRT's. B)
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#14 khamseen

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 05:35 PM

(And how to set up such a huge cable anyway).


CAT 5 cable is only like half a centimetre in diameter, that plus a concrete drill to the floor near a wall = win lol.

As a side note I really should post some pic's of my home network some time maybe there are some network geeks on this board that would get a kick out of it... hehehe


I'm one sitting right here hehe. I installed our first home network when I was 10 with BNC connections running through the length of the house to encompass all our PC's. A large part of the course I'm doing focuses on networks and PC interactions. Networks are evidentially the way forward and I love it, can't get enough hehe. So yeah I'd love to see your home network lol. *Takes a moment to recover from the nerdy outbreak*

#15 JDavid

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 12:04 AM

Luckily no one in my area is smart enough to even remotely guess our wireless password (Its not that simple neither). Im sitting on the next floor up to my dads router, a Netgear something something...ive still got my old Linksys adapter which is still going strong after a year or two. Cant really complain about wireless as it is nearly 90 percent of what I have used to connect to the internet.



#16 RedTechie

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 04:11 AM

CAT 5 cable is only like half a centimetre in diameter, that plus a concrete drill to the floor near a wall = win lol.



I'm one sitting right here hehe. I installed our first home network when I was 10 with BNC connections running through the length of the house to encompass all our PC's. A large part of the course I'm doing focuses on networks and PC interactions. Networks are evidentially the way forward and I love it, can't get enough hehe. So yeah I'd love to see your home network lol. *Takes a moment to recover from the nerdy outbreak*


Haha Sweet! Nice to see some networking geeks lurking about! B)

Wow BNC... hmm thats a bit old school ;) Must of been a hassle terminating and debugging if there was a fault somewhere in the line. ^_^

Nice I'll post the pictures in a new thread sometime soon when I get some spare time :)

If your impatient cause I would be too :rolleyes: you could check out http://redtechie.com; but I warn it is about half a year old and I have added a few things here and there like an IP-KVM in the last few months :)
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#17 Scooter

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 01:13 AM

w00t

We ran a BNC network at our house back when computers still ran on MS-DOS 6.22. When I was in high school I learned how to wire ethernet and we upgraded to 10Mbit, followed by 100Mbit. Running a cable from the crawlspace to the attic was not easy, so for a long time there was nice blue cables running through the front hall. Suffice to say, my Mom was not impressed. One day I finally bit the bullet and started drilling holes. Just about anything can be wired if you're willing to spend the time (and specialty tools help if you're willing to make the investment).

In our present house, I finally upgraded the network to gigabit a few months back. We have wireless available, but it's extremely unreliable. I've tried multiple brands of wireless router with little or no success. Currently running a Linksys WRT310N router with NetGear ProSafe switches. Wireless is locked down pretty hard: SSID not broadcasting, WPA2 encryption with a key so long that its painful to type in, and MAC filtering. Initially, the thought of it not being completely inpenetrable bothered me, but apparently it's a plausible defense if the RIAA is on your back.

#18 RedTechie

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 03:16 PM

Wireless is locked down pretty hard: SSID not broadcasting, WPA2 encryption with a key so long that its painful to type in, and MAC filtering. Initially, the thought of it not being completely inpenetrable bothered me, but apparently it's a plausible defense if the RIAA is on your back.


Thats the way to properly secure a wireless network! :)

WPA2 is still hackable if the key is not complex enough. Having a LONG key with a mix of everything in it makes WPA2 a very hard thing to crack.
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#19 khamseen

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 07:13 PM

Haha Sweet! Nice to see some networking geeks lurking about! B)

Wow BNC... hmm thats a bit old school ;) Must of been a hassle terminating and debugging if there was a fault somewhere in the line. ^_^

Nice I'll post the pictures in a new thread sometime soon when I get some spare time :)

If your impatient cause I would be too :rolleyes: you could check out http://redtechie.com; but I warn it is about half a year old and I have added a few things here and there like an IP-KVM in the last few months :)


Haha yes it was a bit of a pain to diagnose errors and having to drag all the cables around in nice big loops (Ethernet was so much simpler not having to loop around), but it was fun and at the time it served its purpose hehe, most of all it was fun lol.

As for your site, I actually just had a nerdgasm there like, can't wait to see your latest setup. :rocks:

We ran a BNC network at our house back when computers still ran on MS-DOS 6.22. When I was in high school I learned how to wire ethernet and we upgraded to 10Mbit, followed by 100Mbit. Running a cable from the crawlspace to the attic was not easy, so for a long time there was nice blue cables running through the front hall. Suffice to say, my Mom was not impressed. One day I finally bit the bullet and started drilling holes. Just about anything can be wired if you're willing to spend the time (and specialty tools help if you're willing to make the investment).

In our present house, I finally upgraded the network to gigabit a few months back. We have wireless available, but it's extremely unreliable. I've tried multiple brands of wireless router with little or no success. Currently running a Linksys WRT310N router with NetGear ProSafe switches. Wireless is locked down pretty hard: SSID not broadcasting, WPA2 encryption with a key so long that its painful to type in, and MAC filtering. Initially, the thought of it not being completely inpenetrable bothered me, but apparently it's a plausible defense if the RIAA is on your back.


Lovely, yet to make the jump to gigabit networking unfortunately, though really I maintain a network of 4 PC's, three laptops and two PDA's now for myself since it's only myself and my mother who live here and she only uses her laptop via wireless so all the other networking is simply for my own pleasure of maintaining it lol. :D

I have the same trouble with wireless for my home, for me it's because our floors and two of our central walls are made of concrete so the signal just doesn't go anywhere, that's why I have 3 wireless routers set up in different locations of the house to help with the signal. :)

#20 Scooter

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:24 AM

On a somewhat related note, I saw this on Stackoverflow today and had a nerdgasm: http://www.biscade.com/office/




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